I agree that reviewing the historical development of just war theory is almost impossible without immediately thinking at least of how it would apply to current events. Combining both approaches works for me. Wanting to think through the issues in Gaza and Ukraine is what led me to sign up.
On another note: I think the dearth of comments might be attributable to the difficulty in figuring out how to make them. To start, not everyone is accustomed to reading and commenting on Substack. Today was the first time I read the material on a desktop as opposed to my phone. Only today did I discover the "start writing" button. It doesn't appear when I read on my phone. Others might have been having the same problem.
As one who has commented regularly, I agree with Elizabeth that it's not always easy mechanically to do so, particularly when you open up your phone. Most of my comments come several hours after I initially wanted to write them, but had to get into a positon where I could.
An interesting question on what direction to take. In the interest of, not full disclosure but partial disclosure, I took an early retirement package in 1993, went back to school in 1994 for a Masters degree, and my 1995 thesis was titled "The Just War Theory, Pacifism, and Modern Conventional War." Which does not make me an expert, but somewhat knowledgeable and with certain opinions.
My thesis took a historical approach from the early Church, Augustine, Aquinas, and so on up to the United States wars to the first Gulf War, and what our prominate bishops had to say.
So, I am fine with a historical approach, as for instance there have been changes over the centuries as to what constitutes Just Cause. But I am also interested in current wars and those of the recent past.
I believe that it would be difficult to do a historical approach and completely ignore what is happening today.
Which ever way that we go I do not anticipate "heated debates" in this forum. I have seen heated Catholic debates regarding our bombing campaign in WW II.
I am more than willing to take whatever approach Mr. Lawler and other commenters wish to take.
Thanks for the input. I’m glad to have someone with your background involved in the discussion. Curious, though, why you wouldn’t expect heated debates about WWII bombing campaigns in this forum.
The consensus thus far matches my sense that we can and should look into the history of the just-war tradition, but recognize that inevitably people will apply the principles to contemporary conflicts— and that’s a good thing.
I apparently did not make myself clear regarding my comment on WW II bombing. Every year during the first week of August there are articles on WW II bombing, especially on the atomic bombing. These articles appear on Catholic websites as well as secular ones. The written responses frequently range from "they had it coming, or you don't know what you are talking about." The WW II bombing may well come up here as just war principles do apply, but I did not see it as a primary focus. Also, given the nature of this forum on just war principles I anticipate a more "theological" approach than one sees in other forums on this subject which do become heated debates.
Thanks for allowing me to hopefully clear that up.
Fair enough. We’ll see— and maybe the people who visit this site are a different sort of constituency— but I’ve never had a discussion of the WWII bombing that didn’t generate some heat.
I think it would be very helpful to review the development of just War theory when the prevailing culture was Christian. It seems to me that Justice veers towards brutality when it is divorced from the Christian vision, divorced from Mercy and from Grace. You kill one of my people. I'll kill 10 of your people! That's what sounds like Justice in a non-Christian setting. I might add that we are witnessing such thinking in and around Gaza. It's ugly and hopeless. Just war theory seems to me to recognize that man is capable of redemption and is careful to allow for its possibility.
I agree that reviewing the historical development of just war theory is almost impossible without immediately thinking at least of how it would apply to current events. Combining both approaches works for me. Wanting to think through the issues in Gaza and Ukraine is what led me to sign up.
On another note: I think the dearth of comments might be attributable to the difficulty in figuring out how to make them. To start, not everyone is accustomed to reading and commenting on Substack. Today was the first time I read the material on a desktop as opposed to my phone. Only today did I discover the "start writing" button. It doesn't appear when I read on my phone. Others might have been having the same problem.
- Thanks; I think the combined approach makes sense: Look at the history, but recognize the contemporary applications.
- Thanks for that tip. I never use Substack on my phone, so I wouldn’t have thought of this. Not sure of the remedy, though, I’m afraid.
As one who has commented regularly, I agree with Elizabeth that it's not always easy mechanically to do so, particularly when you open up your phone. Most of my comments come several hours after I initially wanted to write them, but had to get into a positon where I could.
Thanks for that tip. I never use Substack on my phone, so I wouldn’t have thought of this. Not sure of the remedy, though, I’m afraid.
An interesting question on what direction to take. In the interest of, not full disclosure but partial disclosure, I took an early retirement package in 1993, went back to school in 1994 for a Masters degree, and my 1995 thesis was titled "The Just War Theory, Pacifism, and Modern Conventional War." Which does not make me an expert, but somewhat knowledgeable and with certain opinions.
My thesis took a historical approach from the early Church, Augustine, Aquinas, and so on up to the United States wars to the first Gulf War, and what our prominate bishops had to say.
So, I am fine with a historical approach, as for instance there have been changes over the centuries as to what constitutes Just Cause. But I am also interested in current wars and those of the recent past.
I believe that it would be difficult to do a historical approach and completely ignore what is happening today.
Which ever way that we go I do not anticipate "heated debates" in this forum. I have seen heated Catholic debates regarding our bombing campaign in WW II.
I am more than willing to take whatever approach Mr. Lawler and other commenters wish to take.
Thanks for the input. I’m glad to have someone with your background involved in the discussion. Curious, though, why you wouldn’t expect heated debates about WWII bombing campaigns in this forum.
The consensus thus far matches my sense that we can and should look into the history of the just-war tradition, but recognize that inevitably people will apply the principles to contemporary conflicts— and that’s a good thing.
I apparently did not make myself clear regarding my comment on WW II bombing. Every year during the first week of August there are articles on WW II bombing, especially on the atomic bombing. These articles appear on Catholic websites as well as secular ones. The written responses frequently range from "they had it coming, or you don't know what you are talking about." The WW II bombing may well come up here as just war principles do apply, but I did not see it as a primary focus. Also, given the nature of this forum on just war principles I anticipate a more "theological" approach than one sees in other forums on this subject which do become heated debates.
Thanks for allowing me to hopefully clear that up.
Fair enough. We’ll see— and maybe the people who visit this site are a different sort of constituency— but I’ve never had a discussion of the WWII bombing that didn’t generate some heat.
I think it would be very helpful to review the development of just War theory when the prevailing culture was Christian. It seems to me that Justice veers towards brutality when it is divorced from the Christian vision, divorced from Mercy and from Grace. You kill one of my people. I'll kill 10 of your people! That's what sounds like Justice in a non-Christian setting. I might add that we are witnessing such thinking in and around Gaza. It's ugly and hopeless. Just war theory seems to me to recognize that man is capable of redemption and is careful to allow for its possibility.